Zimbabwe are no minnows for Pakistan
on January 12th, 2008 at 4:21 am
With six countries playing test series at the moment i.e., Bangladesh vs. New Zealand, West Indies vs. South Africa and India vs. Australia, the later has taken the sheen away from the rest owing to the controversies of bad umpiring and racism related issues. For Pakistanis there is nothing much to talk about owing to their own political turmoil in the country except for a few domestic matches which are in preparation to meet the minnows, Zimbabwe who are due to arrive today.
Pakistan has selected 28 probables for the camp and according to their chief selector Salahuddin Ahmad they will give chance to their “budding players,” which means once again there will be a big question mark on the team selection. The question is how long Pakistan is going to experiment new players and new combinations instead of being persistent? The reason they have not been able to build a decent team in the recent past or even for a decade or so is because, except for two or three players no other player is assured of his place in the team. It is very similar to the country’s political parties and politicians ruling the country.
If you keep dropping the player after two bad performance then he is never going to gain confidence and perform better. The management on the other hand which is the PCB and the selectors, they keep on sticking to their bad decisions only for the heck of it and to prove a point that when they took a decision it was well thought and a right decision. One bad example is the selection of Shoaib Malik as the captain and sticking to it only to prove a point that one day he will improve and start winning as if he will discover a magic wand and thereafter it will be the magical world with everything going right for him and the team.
Even Geoff Lawson is now talking in the same tune as the selectors to include Shoaib Akhtar in the team. Once again there are big ifs and buts that a fully fit Shoaib is a lethal weapon. How long the Pakistanis will talk about this Rawalpindi Express which is now worst than a goods train. He hardly has the stamina to bowl for more than 4 overs and yet they want him in the team! There is not a single fast bowler who is as over weight as Akhtar is. Look at his chest muscles, his biceps and triceps which he so proudly displays on the ground. That is not the physique of a fast bowler but, that of a body builder or a wrestler.
Umar Gul and Mohammad Asif with their chronic and persistent injuries are not going to do any good. Sami can do everything except for taking wickets, so he should not even be in the 16. Its a shame that none of the so called kings of swings are helping Sohail Tanvir, even the coach who is an ex-fast bowler of Australia has done nothing to help him or explain him how to bring back the ball to the right handers. In the 3 day match at Canberra, Wasim Akram was discussing with Ian Chappell at length about Ishaant Sharma’s action and was commenting that if he can do this or do that he would be a very dangerous bowler and blah, blah. As a TV commentator for the Indian TV company Wasim Akram knows very well and he puts his money where his mouth is.
Once again the team selection against Zimbabwe would be at the mercy of Sallus and Mallus and once again there would be no harmony and balance in the team and it is expected that Zimbabwe would give them a tough time. In other days when the Pakistan team was roaring with big guns the current Zimbabwe team would have been on the receiving end and anyone would have said, its a 5-0 in favour of Pakistan. But, now if it is a 3-2 in favour of Pakistan it would be a big achievement.
I am sorry about the West Indies episode, my memories are failing me. It was the very first Test of the 5 match series.
Clive Lloyd did not withdraw but was very much ashamed and embrassed and rumors were on through-out regarding it. Even the Umpires admitted they were afraid to give the last
pair out and were sure they would not reach their home alive! The stumps were literally covered with the bodies and
question of LBW was never on. All catches were no-balled!
Despite these, Wasim Raja ( May Allah Rest His Soul In Peace, Aameen ) Majid Khan, Asif Iqbal, Haroon Rashid and others
flayed and thrashed this dreaded attack to all parts of the ground while bowlers kept a consistant pressure led by new
found Imran Khan and the old horse Sarfraz Nawaz. The astute captainship of Mushtaq Mohammed, who led from the front by scoring runs and taking wickets made the Pakistanis the most popular touring team in the West Indies! Even the
West Indian players grudgingly admired their game.
Javed Khan,
Roy Gilchrist was the meanest fast bowler ever.
He was suspended and sent home from India when he dis-obeyed his captain’s instruction not to bowl beamers and deliberately hurt the batsmen and subsequently banned.
It was Charlie Griffith who hit Nari Contractor on the temple and he was in the Hospital for a week or so in a desperate
fight for his life.
Apart from the four Awas mentioned and asked me if I can identify others of the same period, here are some of those: Wayne Daniel, Phillips, Van Holder and another of those Nuts, Sylvester Clarke whom I remember throwing a brick at a spectator in Multan Stadium when West Indies toured Pakistan.
I dont remember the year. I have already mentioned Colin Croft and Peterson. That makes ten of them at the same time and may be I am missing a couple more?
That is what I want to see, a pool of 10 to 12 real fast and furious boys.
It is not impossible. All it takes is honesty. Forget who is connected to which General or Politician or Beurocrat. We have
the talent. Select the boys on MERIT and only on MERIT. Give
them a chance against Zimbabwe and also throw them in the
fray against Aussies. Let them learn the hard way. That way the boys and men will tell apart. An exaple is not far off. The last time Pakistan toured Australia, Mohammed Asif and Mohammed Khalil were selected, Khalil was a flop while Asif became a rousing success within 18 months. Out of these 12
boys, 8 will come out with flying colours within two years and Pakistan will become a force in world cricket. I may or may not see the day but I guarantee it. History and experience backs my theory. Whoever possess the fire-power, rules the world. It is as simple as that!!
MY Kasim
thats a good one about Indians, but you have to make minor corrections its the proverbial pants and in reality its dhoti.
You have mentioned the names of Colin Croft and Patty Patterson but the more recent ones after Andy Roberts and Marshall were, Curtley Ambrose and Courtney Walsh.
And if you wanna remember the players of your hey days then there is Wesley Hall and Gilchrist. The later was more deadly and dangerous and reportedly when he was bowling in India against the then Indian wicket-keeper Inderjit Shingji the batsman hit him a four and asked Gilchrist how was the shot? The next ball was a bouncer which hit on his ear and tore the ear lobe from the face, he quietly asked him, how was the bouncer? I heard this from my uncle and later I read somewhere on cricinfo but not in this much detail.
One of the West Indian bowlers of that era also broke the nose of the Indian Captain Nari Contractor. But, worst of all the bouncers that was delivered by Andy Roberts to Ian Botham. Two of his front teeth fell off on the ground and two others had to be removed as they were broken. This I have read recently on cricinfo. That was when Botham was very new to the international arena.
wasim saqib
you better rest this unending debate here because neither of us is going to be convinced by each other’s argument or stats. Lets move on to a new thread, new chapter.
Javed:
Let me again show you reality the copy pasting of stats was done by you when you posted S rajesh’s analysis without realizing that it is not for the whole calender year. All the stats I posted are in detail and are for both the players for the same period.
There is nothing wrong with aspiring to become a captain of the team but every thing is wrong when you backstab an existing captain and use all the petty tricks to dethrone him.
Thank you Waqar Khan for correcting me regarding Wasim Akram’s net practice bowling to the Pakistan team. My
contention was that Miandad was very much impressed by him and insisted on his inclusion in the touring party.
And my dear Awas, you hit me where it hurts!! It was not only these four but Colin Croft, Peterson, and I forgot couple of more names which I will find out from Cricinfo and
let you all know who ruled for two decades and whom our
boys beat them on their own ground!! Had it not been for
biased umpiring and dishonest behavior by some of the West Indian players, we would have won the series. Clive Lloyd, the West Indian Captain, the great sportsman that he is was so ashamed and embrassed that he withdrew from the final Test on the pretext that he is unfit and Viv Richards took over. The disheartened and demoralised Pakistani team caved in.
On the question of guessing what is going on in the Indian dressing room? Are you guys nuts? They must be pissing in their pants!! Ha ha ha.
Wasim Saqib
You are saying that “he (Afridi) is after Captaincy and has openly acknowledged that.”
Is there anything wrong in aspiring to be a captain of the national side? When Younus Khan refused it, people blamed him as a dummy or an idiot to do that. When Anil Kumble was offered the job to lead India against Pakistan and Australia, he accepted it. A lot of people in India and all over the world said, he is greedy and on the verge of retirement yet, he has accepted it.
But, before he accepted it, when the media asked him that you are being tipped as the future captain of India, will you accept it? He said, yes of course, it will be an honour. Indeed it is an honour. Although his tactics are defensive and I don’t consider him as a good captain. But, for him and Indians winning the series was more important than winning with bigger margin in test, instead of 3-0 he is happy with 1-0
When Yuvraj was not included in test squad the whole of India was surprised and a play card in the crowd during a match was displayed, asking “why is UV not in the test team?” Yuvraj himself was waving at the camera and saying, ” I dunno myself ” and the expression was what can I do? He got in and scored 169 against Pakistan in the test he played. Everyone said, it was a BIG mistake not including him in the test team.
Now Yuvraj failed in 5 consecutive innings against Australia and the same people are saying, he is NOT yet ready for test matches.
Sehwag was dropped and people demanded his inclusion in test and ODI. In the 3 day match at Canberra he scored a hundred and he is in the team now for the 3rd test. IF he fails, which is very likely because, the Australians know him well and they will keep a deep point and bowl wide short pitched deliveries and get him out. Then, the same people will say, he is a goner he shouldn’t have been in the team.
c’est la vie monsieur saqib.
khansahab
who is stopping Malik from bowling? He is the captain now and if he wants to he can open the bowling with the new ball.
Wasim Saqib
You are not reading my comments, you are simply responding with this notion that I am either posting obsolete stats or twisted stats. The fact is you are simply copy pasting them without making the right comparisons for the time and the period and without making any analysis.
You may laugh because no one is stopping you from laughing or from crying because its a fact that in the first 4 ODI matches Afridi’s performance was better than Malik and he simply dropped him on the notion that he is not performing.
As regards throwing the wickets, Malik has thrown his wicket in the T20 and also against SA and again in India. And in T20 some people blame Misbah for loosing the match against India twice, although I look at it from a very impartial point of view and I consider it was a brave effort from him and just bad luck on Misbah’s part that he could not succeed. But, Malik has definitely thrown away his wicket at least 4 times since T20 and twice he was clean bowled, once he was stumped and once he was caught in the deep.
Younus Khan also did that in T20 and people blamed him but everyone ignored Malik’s follies.
Javed:
Even though I posted the stats date wise you are still persisting with your earlier statement.
S rajesh posted that article in the middle of SA series and the analysis of the rest of the six matches which were played by Afridi in 2007 are not included in his analysis.
I have posted all the comparisons and I challenge you prove anyone of them wrong. Last two series, last 12 months, 24 months, and 36 months Afridi sucks in batting and Malik sucks in bowling neither one of them has advantage on the other so it would be unfair to twist the stats and make one hero and the other zero.
All the batting stats you provided have been twisted to prove Afridi’s worth you cannot take a sample of stats of your own choice from any players record and leave the rest. If you want to analyze his record do it for a certain period or do it as a whole.
I can only laugh at your simplicity when you are quoting Malik’s average after taking out his biggest score if you are fair and not biased then why don’t you take out Afridi’s 77 against SA and the make the comparison.
For any person who understands statistics or the law of averages
would know that the averages reflect a tendency if a player has an average ranging between 18-25 through out his career its not going to change it will stay in that range so it doesn’t matter if Malik played more matches we should talk about hard facts and not ifs and buts. Also you can take the example of S rajesh’s analysis Afridi played 6 more matches after the analysis in 2007 and his average further declined the more he plays the more his average goes down.
I have never seen a bigger back stabber than Afridi both against India and SA and in the final of T/20 he under performed and threw away his wicket on critical juntures of the match other wise Pakistan would have won all three of these series. He is after Captaincy and has openly acknowledged that.
You also said ‘To prove a point you are saying Afridi’s current performance is bad WHICH IS WRONG, HIS RECENT PERFORMANCE IS BETTER THAN HIS OWN CAREER PERFORMANCE AND BETTER THAN MALIK & OTHERS.”
All the comparative stats I posted in my previous post do you see anywhere Afridi’s batting better or even at par with Malik’s, if not then you are WRONG .
Javed A Khan,
You spoke about Malik’s bowling and you asked me what has happened to it. The answer is, Malik has HARDLY been bowling in the first place whereas Afridi is getting regular chances to bowl and bat. I have never praised Malik as a bowler and I agree his bowling is mediocre. In fact on Pakspin I kept saying he should concentrate on his batting only and forget about bowling because the team needs him to score runs, not take wickets.
Wasim Saqib;
No, I won’t get any goose bumps ‘coz Kishore Kumar is not one of my favourite singers, I prefer Mohd. Rafi and that too a few of his numbers. And perhaps you are not aware of the Dhobi wala expression so quoting that expression for you was meaningless.
As regards the averages, I don’t know how you work out your stats and averages on cricinfo. I know how to use statsguru and according to that from Jan 01, 2005 to Dec. 31, 2007 the test matches Afridi has played are:
Year 2005 to 2007
Batting
matches 12
Runs 903
highest 156
average 43.00
hundreds 3
Bowling
26 wickets
best figures 4/95
av. bowling 37.65
His career average against India is 52.88 in test matches
His career average against West Indies is 53.50 in test matches
His 5 match ODI against Australia, in Australia is as follows:
5 matches batting average of 47.75 runs (includes 16 sixes)
5 matches bowling average of 7 wickets @ 28.28 runs av.
Btw, Rajesh is known as Stats Guru and he is the one who compiles the cricinfo stats and those are not totally out dated, they were before the India series even if you take his overall average for 2007 it is 29.91 which is better than his own career average.
Besides, in those 4 ODI’s in India Malik’s average was 17.4 runs and ZERO wickets. Whereas, Afridi’s average in those 4 matches was 24.33 and he took 2 wickets.
Also, Malik played 21 matches in 2007 as opposed to Afridi’s 15. AND, AND, if you take out the last match’s score of 89 his average goes down to 30.90 which is hardly any better than Afridi’s i.e., even after playing 6 extra matches. Besides he has only 8 wickets in 21 matches to his name and Afridi has 19 wickets in 15 matches.
To prove a point you are saying Afridi’s current performance is bad
WHICH IS WRONG, HIS RECENT PERFORMANCE IS BETTER THAN HIS OWN CAREER PERFORMANCE AND BETTER THAN MALIK & OTHERS.
Secondly, you are ignoring the fact that Malik’s own recent performance is going down.
And, regarding his injury I am not making an issue. Yes, I must have said at that time that he is faking his injury because that was a rumour in the media. And whether it is fake or real, he should not have been excluded for being a captain. Its good that now he has to prove his fitness like others.
And btw, this is not the first time Malik is unfit. Like in India, he was in SA sitting in the balcony and prior to that he was sent to Australia and England for his surgery and for his bowling action. So our tender Malik or baby lamb whatever he is, is still kum-sin and Na-daan and bhola and naa-zuk and what not is actually a meesna.
Javed:
I am not sure if my singing that song will create a typhoon in ganges but it sure will give you goose bumps.
Cricinfo stat guru is only a few clicks away from you just go and check it for yourself the link you posted has a differrent cutoff date it does not reflect the data for whole 2007. Just in case you dont want to check the reality here is a list of all the matches he played in 2007 with innings by innings detail.
17 2 42 0 0 4-Feb-07
77* 3 25 0 0 7-Feb-07
8 - - - - 9-Feb-07
16 3 20 0 0 21-Mar-07
73* 0 43 0 0 18-May-07
1 3 37 0 0 20-May-07
47 1 48 1 0 18-Oct-07
6 1 41 1 0 20-Oct-07
32 3 37 2 0 23-Oct-07
0 1 43 0 0 26-Oct-07
9 0 44 0 0 29-Oct-07
31 1 34 1 0 5-Nov-07
29* 1 65 1 0 8-Nov-07
12 0 57 0 0 11-Nov-07
1 0 67 0 0 15-Nov-07
He played 15 matches and not 9 as you mentioned just check it yourself.
You have so conveniently forgotten the drama Afridi was playing about his batting position in t/20 he was allowed to played up the order and was given a choice by Malik to pick and choose which ever # he wants to play he still failed miserably .
Well if you want to twist the stats and analyze them by taking Malik’s highest score out then also take out Afridi’s 77 out and then see what his average comes out to.
The only reason I didn’t compared the test matches bcz Afridi has not played any test matches recently and his average is miserable against every country he played against except India. There is nothing to analyze there.
You have made a big deal about Malik’s injury why? players can’t get injured? He is recovering and will choose to play only if he is fit.
What’s wrong with that? First you made it sound like he faked the injury despite all the statements by the physio and the team physician that clearly shows your bias against Malik.
I have been following some interesting discussion going on between a young lad, M. Y. Kasim, Houston. Tx and some of the others. But I find it difficult to pick up enough enthusiasm to get excited about this particular series. Whether PCB are gonna pick this one or drop that one, is the only topic of interest worth mentioning but otherwise there isn’t much in it at the moment.
I hear that for the first time in 16 years, Aussies are going to pick a quartet of fast bowlers for WACA. They must be licking their lips drooling at the pitch. Apparently, Tendulkar is the only one in the current Indian team with some experience of having played here in a test match. The others will be rightly nervous of what is expected to come at them.
People often talk about batting records and averages and love batsmen scoring tons of runs but for me when the bowlers are on song and a batsman trying to get on top, that’s what I love watching most.
For those who were just young chicks, at the time when West Indies used to play with a battery of fast bowlers, may not know this but our friend Kasim can perhaps remind them how threatening those bowlers were. Imagine the mercenaries in the likes of Marshall, Holding, Andy Roberts, Joel Garner coming at you one after the other wanting blood and the batsmen just praying for their lives. Wow, what a spectacle that must have been.
Any ideas how the Indian dressing room would be like at the moment?
khansahab
So, in your own words you are denying the fact that if a bowler steals the show he wears a different tag? Well, some people are lucky to be early bloomers and some are late bloomers, he is showing his bowling abilities now. What happened to Shoaib Malik’s bowling? It wasn’t that impressive in the beginning either and it is zilch at the moment.
Wasim
You are now talking about Malik’s fitness after the press release in which Nasim Ashraf was cornered by the media to answer his double standards on fitness. He had no choice but to clear the air, because this is a new series and Malik cannot be sitting in the balcony watching the players like he did in India for 2 test matches whereas, he should have come home. If he is unfit now and not in the team then he should be sitting in his living room and watching the matches on TV.
khansahab
I was not disputing about Nasir Jamshed, my comments were about Khalid Latif’s slow batting. Afaq Naeem also played a very slow innings and even Faud Alam is doing the same. I know this is not a twenty20 or a 50 overs match. But, two days have gone and not two innings have been completed. A lead of only 152 runs. It should have been close to 230-240 runs at least.
Anyways, Afridi seems to be giving chance to the youngsters to bat and would you be giving him credit to his captaincy, if he wins?
wasim saqib
If you think your voice is so good that upon hearing it a Dhobi would come running to take you back home, then you may certainly go ahead and sing that song and be His Master’s Voice. Also, there is a possibility that Kishore Kumar’s ashes might create a typhoon of agony in the river Ganges!
Anyways this is what Afridi’s 2007 ODI batting performance is:
Year inn runs av.
2007 9 277 39.57
Want to check it? it is on cricinfo S. Rajesh’s analysis: Link below:
http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/columns/content/current/story/317029.html
Malik’s average for 12 months barring the last match he scored 89 runs in India was only 28. If Afridi had played the 10th match for the year which Malik dropped him for no reason his average would have been even better, who knows! Because, in the 4 ODI’s that they both played Afridi’s average was better plus he took wickets.
Secondly, we know that in twenty20 Afridi comes way down the batting order and sometimes he gets only 2 – 3 overs to slog, so his job is different from Malik, who comes up the order and has time to play shots. And in the recent matches as a captain, he played some very irresponsible shots at the wrong time and threw away his wicket and lost the matches because of that. Still not disputing the batting averages of 20/20 but it is the all-round display of efforts that is seen in twenty20.
Besides, who is stopping Malik to bowl in the 20/20? He is the Captain of the team definitely lacking confidence in his own bowling abilities, can’t he bowl 4 overs huh? A player who came into the team as an off-spinner to challenge Saqlain Mushtaq and cannot bowl 4 straight overs? Can’t even blame the captain for not giving him a chance, because he himself is the captain. Still learning huh?
Apart from many other bloggers, also khansahab has always said that in twenty20 Afridi’s position is indispensable among the current lot. So, that was the reason and also the fact that Afridi was adjudged as the player of the series for twenty20 WC so we don’t need to compare the two in this form of game.
And how conveniently you have ignored the test match comparisons between the two. The point to note is, he was dropped from playing test matches when his average and his performance in test matches and particularly against India is 52.88 runs which is excellent, also he took 11 wickets in 5 matches.
Javed A Khan,
Nasir has been dismissed for 182! I told you this kid can play…………………
Javed A Khan,
You can say Afridi and Razzaq started their career as bowlers, but the truth is that Afridi in his first innings as a batsman smashed the fastest century in ODI history which stole his “bowler” tag. The first few matches he played, many people didn’t even know he was a bowler. He became recognised as a hard hitting and aggressive batsman so to say that he is actually a “bowler” is wrong. If you look all the years Afridi played before 2005, his bowling was mediocre; his economy rate was high and his strike rate was average too. He was only in the team because the team wanted him to consistently score useful knocks in a few balls which has been his expertise in the domestic circuit but unfortunately he failed much more than he delivered in international cricket.
As far as Razzaq is concerned he is in a different position because he has hardly ever played as a middle order batsman. He has more or less always been a lower order player and has made most of his runs slogging. Razzaq did not “learn” batting when he came in international cricket, as Malik has learnt it. Razzaq has been playing the same way as he did since he arrived in international cricket and the same goes for Afridi. On the other hand Malik has transformed. In fact I think in one of his earlier matches Malik was also slotted to play at no 11. So he has been learning constantly and as I said before he was made captain because of his batting which he only learned 4 odd years prior, not because of bowling.
Kasim Sahib:
Sarfraz Nawaz was the man who discovered Wasim Akram,
Wasim used to play for nawab club in model town Lahore and one day he was bowling in the nets in Minto Park that Sarfraz came there and saw him and from there on he arranged his net pracice with the team and the rest is History.
Javed
Lets start from t/20 which you gave to Afridi hands down.
Afridi has an average of 17.55 and malik has an average of 32.75
Afridi failed with the bat completely, if he had played responsibly in the finals we would have won the cup, his bowling record is better
because there was no contest malik rarely bowled in t/20 he persisted with Hafeez who was doing a good job.
You said in the calendar year 2007 Afridi’s average was 39.57 now you really want me to sing that Kishore Kumar song.
His average in 2007 was 29.91 and Malik’s average was 41.58 please go to stats guru and check it again.
For you only I have posted a comparison between them for the last 12 months, 24 months and 36 months and in batting Malik has won hands down, Yes Afridi is head and shoulders above Malik in bowling as Malik has rarely bowled in the past year or two.
You have been griping about his performance in the last two series.
I have posted that comparison too again Malik is way better than Afridi in batting. And Btw Afridi’s bowling has declined in these last two series.
As far as the test matches are concerned Afridi had one good series against India which bosted his average other than that his ave in England was 16 and in srilanka it was even less.
Above all Afridi does not have the temprament I cant think of any other player who has let his team down with his recklessness more than him he is unique in this aspect in fact a legend.
Statistics Afridi Vs Malik
t/20 Afridi
mat runs hs ave 100 wkts BB B ave
10 158 39 17.55 0 14 4/19 18.64
t/20 Malik
mat runs hs ave 100 wkts BB B ave
10 262 57 32.75 0 2 2/15 9
ODI last two series
Afridi
mat runs hs ave 100 wkts BB B ave
9 167 47 20.87 0 8 3/37 54.50
Malik
mat runs hs ave 100 wkts BB B ave
10 343 89 34.3 0 4 3/61 50.50
Last 12 months
Afridi
mat runs hs ave 100 wkts BB B ave
15 359 77 29.91 0 19 3/20 31.73
Malik
mat runs hs ave 100 wkts BB B ave
21 707 89 41.58 0 8 3/61 46.12
Last 24 months
Afridi
mat runs hs ave 100 wkts BB B ave
33 474 77 17.55 0 33 3/20 35.30
Malik
mat runs hs ave 100 wkts BB B ave
43 1345 108 37.36 1 19 3/35 38.36
Last three years
Afridi
mat runs hs ave 100 wkts BB B ave
58 1114 102 22.28 1 59 4/38 34.44
Malik
mat runs hs ave 100 wkts BB B ave
65 1955 108 36.20 1 29 3/29 38.51
Javed:
There is no question that he has to be fit to play and should prove his fitness like every other player but we both know that we are having this debate in another context and that is of his worthiness to be in the team provided if his ankle has healed.
Mr Kasim
We are honored to have you among us, I am glad that you are so passionate about the game, I completely agree with you in fact I also expressed the same thing in my earlier post.
Javed:
The news about Akhtar is old, Dawn is always a day or two late in updating their site. However todays news is Malik has not fully recovered and he might not play and the management is facing another captaincy crisis.
http://www.jang-group.com/jang/jan2008-daily/15-01-2008/sports.htm
My dear friends, I still dont understand what the fuss is about? Our main problem lies in bowling, especially fast bowling, I am 73 years old and have followed Pakistan cricket
since day one and my experience tells me that whenever Pakistan possesed quality fast bowlers, it has beaten each and every team who boasts to be the best side at that particular time, be it Australia, West Indies or England on their own ground. You guys are familiar with the records, I dont have to recount those. This is the golden opportunity to pick a dozen REAL FAST youngsters and I repeat REAL FAST and play three of them in first match and rotate two in every match irrespective of their performance and at the end of the series you will have a pool of at least seven or eight guys raring to go. Look at Australia . Look at South Africa. We are crying like babies about Shoaib Akhtar and Mohammed Asif and Umer Gul. Like I said in my earlier blog
when Imran Khan was laid off for a couple seasons, Pakistan managed without him, in fact, it was blessing in disguise. During that period, we discovered Aaqib Javed, in my
opinion, one of the finest and under-rated fast-medium bowler Pakistan was blessed with and Wasim Akram who needs no introduction. He was discovered by chance by Javed Miandad when he came to bowl to the Pakistani team at the
nets at Lahore who were going on a tour to New Zealand under Miandad’s captainship. Miandad was very much impressed by Wasim and he insisted with the Selection Commitee to include him and threatened to resign if his demand was not accepted.
Finally Nasim Ashraf has spoken and proved that he has BALLS to tell Shoaib Akhtar:
ITS EITHER CRICKET OR MOVIES
Read this link in today’s DAWN
http://www.dawn.com/2008/01/15/spt4.htm
Wasim Saqib;
Come on please be realistic, I am not using any kind of double standards here because, I am in no position to impose myself in the team selection. I am only expressing my views as I see it and it is based on the facts and statistics that is available on cricinfo. Whereas, whatever you are saying is your own personal feelings and your own perception about Malik and Afridi.
Anyways, if you look at it realistically, presently the whole media is now talking about the double standards of the PCB and the selectors. They are criticizing for the biased team selection and asking them to answer Shoaib Malik’s inclusion in the team on the basis of fitness and performance. Don’t we all know that he had his foot in his mouth errrrr in plaster? Why on earth he is not supposed to prove his fitness?
As regards performance, let us see and compare Malik and Afridi’s performance for the past 3 years in all forms of the game.
In twenty20, no one disputes Afridi’s abilities, his utility and his worthiness as an all-rounder and he was adjudged as the player of the series for the 20/20 world cup, so lets not talk about that.
Lets only compare the stats of Malik and Afridi for the last 3 years for ODI and test matches only. These are not my invention, I have obtained them from cricinfo.
Between January 01, 2005 and December 31, 2007 (three years comparison)
Batting:
Afridi: ODI 58 matches 1114 runs Average 22.28 one hundred
Malik: ODI 65 matches 1955 runs Average 36.20 one hundred
Bowling:
Afridi: ODI 58 matches 59 wickets av. 34.44
Malik: ODI 65 matches 29 wickets av. 38.51
Afridi’s batting average in the year 2007 is 39.57 which is better than many i.e., Malik, Butt, Hafeez, Yasir Hameed etc. And in the bowling department, we all agree that his bowling has improved a lot. And, in 2007 he took 16 wickets in 9 ODI’s with an economy rate of 4.01 which is second best in the world in the year 2007 after Murali who is ranked first.
In Test matches during the same period i.e., between January 2005 to December 2007.
Batting:
Afridi: 12 test matches, 903 runs, average 43 and 3 hundreds
Malik: 13 test matches, 704 runs, average 35.20 only one hundred.
Bowling:
Afridi: 12 test matches 26 wickets at an av. of 37.65 runs
Malik: 13 test matches only 5 wickets at an av. of 90.80 runs
What else do you need? Chamchaa geeri or buttering up the back side of the PCB officials? Afridi would never do that and why should he? Its a shame that such a talented player is at the helm of petty politics and is a victim of nepotism and favouritism for not being a “Yes-Man.”
And you are absolutely wrong in saying; “if we can tolerate Afridi’s inconsistencies with the bat for the past 8 or 9 years then we can bear with Malik also for a year given his talent and his past record.” Actually Afridi was dropped on more occasions than Malik i.e., the time since they are playing. Since Afridi started playing ODI’s i.e. Oct. 1996 Pakistan team has played more than 300 ODI’s and, he has played in 249 ODI’s that itself is a proof that he was dropped more frequently for whatever reasons best known to the people who are involved in selection.
I am aware of the two time bans but, even then the number of matches he was not included in the ODI squad is something baffling. And in test matches i.e., since his debut in test in Oct. 1998 he has played only 26 test matches. Whereas, his test average is far superior than his ODI average.
Javed:
I think you are using double standards to judge Malik and Afridi,
Malik only performed poorly in India but Afridi as a batsman has been consistently performing poorly with the bat over the years, to depend on him as an all rounder has always been a risky business yes his bowling has improved but in India he also failed with the ball, Malik on the other hand is a lot maturer as far his batting is concerned I don’t think he has to learn any thing he just has to regain his fitness and form, he lost his bowling form bcz Hafeez and Afridi were taking care of the spin department.
Its too early to say this is not the time to learn, yes if he fails to regain his batting or bowling form in the next two series then we can say that, if we can tolerate Afridi’s inconsistencies with the bat for the past 8 or 9 years then we can bear with Malik also for a year given his talent and his past record.
khansahab
you are fully agreeing avec moi with a BUT in between. I have said that Hafeez should play at number 5 and you are saying but, he should not open the innings. I never said, half of the Americans are fools, so why are you saying half of them are NOT fools? Anyways, I agree with you on all other points except for covering up for Shoaib Malik.
You are saying he is a consistent batsmen and his batting performance is consistence? I know his past performance but his recent past i.e., since the time he became captain is pathetic. Not just in test matches but in all forms of the game.
If you think Shoaib Malik is the only player who started off as an off-spinner and then improved his batting miraculously and you are also saying that who else has achieved that? For your info. Abdul Razzaq and Shahid Afridi both started their careers as bowlers so Shoaib Malik’s case is not unique.
Short time averages are always very deceptive and they change drastically with a few performances. Hussey’s average of 88 dropped to 82 by two bad batting performances. Therefore, 20 odd matches is not a way to judge, the way Malik is playing his averages are taking a nose dive.
In my opinion the only reason he is in the team and not just as a member of the team but as captain of the team is because of his chamcha geeri. He is a spineless person, whenever he was asked to play at any position he used to say: “I am agree.”
He said this very openly that, ” if my coach and captain wants me to open I will open if they want me to play down I play down.” They thrust the bowling upon him and he bowled. Since he became captain he is using his prerogative NOT to bowl. What kinda attitude is this? Just because of him the team is a bowler short and being a captain cannot be axed.
You are saying “WE should give him a chance to improve.” Man this is not the time and the place that he should be learning to improve, it is time to deliver. And who is stopping him? He is the captain of the team and he is automatically in at the expense of some other deserving player.
Javed A Khan,
I fully agree with you that Hafeez should be in the Pakistan team but he should play as a middle order player as opposed to opener because he has failed in that position. As far as Nasir Jamshed is concerned I did not judge him on the basis of this sole performance against Zimbabwe. Recently he has been in excellent form and is an aggressive player, he has scored well against some good bowling attacks. I have been following his performance for some time.
I also agree that Fawad Alam is unlucky having not been given enough chances to prove his worth. But the problem with a specialist all rounder is that he needs to perform with both bat and ball if he wants to retain his place in the team. People just perceive the role of the all rounder in a different way. For example if Afridi is removed from the Pakistan ODI team despite his improved bowling over the past couple of years, it will not affect the team much because his batting is as unreliable as ever. Fawad is in a similar position; he will not get a chance to bat higher up than players like Yousuf and Misbah and he will always have to make his presence felt in whatever the limited number of balls he has a chance to face, even though if you look at his domestic record he is good enough as a batsman, averaging 40+ in all forms of domestic cricket- first class, List A or Twenty20. His bowling in List A is top class (bowling average of 30 and strike rate of 36), as good as any spinner in the country and his bowling in Twenty20 is exceptional.
As far as Malik is concerned, he has been a consistent player and already has played a significant part in winning Pakistan plenty of ODI’s. In Tests his batting is less reliable but he will learn by playing more because he has only played 21 Tests. If you look at the way he has improved in ODI’s since his debut, it is something quite miraculous because you won’t see many players who started as tailend offspinners and then were made captain on the basis of their CONSISTENT BATTING PERFORMANCE. So I think with Malik we should give him a chance to improve in Tests too, the way he has improved in ODI’s. In ODI’s he knows what his batting role is but in Tests he is still discovering his place.
wasim
I agree that Afridi did not play well in the QAT finals but, b4 that he scored well, 70 in 78 balls with 3 sixes and 7 fours is not nothing.
As regards Khalid Latif, I am not judging him, I have only commented on his slow batting and I know that he was the captain of Pakistan under – 19 and obviously none of us have seen him play and its not that he has scored heavily, heavily but a couple of slow 100′s and his average is still 30.5 in the domestic first class matches and this one he is playing against an international team and that is not Australia but, Zimbabwe.
His career best 153 against Multan was perhaps the only reason that got him a place in lieu of Hafeez. But, you know he took 449 balls or a strike rate of 34.1 to score those 153 odd runs. May be they should try him in test matches but not in ODI. I would any time prefer Hafeez over him especially in ODI. Because, Hafeez is a good handy bowler and a very good fielder too. Besides, he should not be opening the innings, may be at number 5 he will be more effective.
If you keep dropping experienced and well known players like Afridi and Hafeez and replacing them with some new players then, SOON there will be a time when these new players would be replaced by some other NEW players. Where is this buck going to stop? Players like Shoaib Malik can crawl at snails pace and become indispensable.
When Malik came into the side, he was hyped up as a replacement for Saqlain Mushtaq. Then slowly gradually he became an all-rounder along with Razzaq and Afridi until then it was good. But, then he has some problem with his bowling action and his injury and he was not effective as a bowler.
Since he became Captain of the team he stopped bowling for the fear of being thrashed and his batting has been pathetic except for the last ODI against India. Through out i.e., since he has been appointed captain his batting performance is way below par.
khansahab
I don’t know anything about Khurram Manzoor so I won’t be able to comment on him and Nasir Jamshed’s one performance should not be the key factor to seal an opener’s place in the Pakistan team. Poor Fawad Alam never gets any chance and his confidence would be shattered if he is not selected in the team.
Lets see how the PCB Patrons XI will bat on day 2.
Slightly off-topic but I cannot resist commenting on the subject of Indians withdrawing their charges against Brad Hogg. This, I have said before that neither the BCCI nor the Team India which includes Anil Kumble have the balls to stand up against the Australians or the ICC. They are happy that they got rid of Steve Bucknor at the expense of Harbhajan Singh.
Its not just Harbhajan but the Indian team has been labeled as “racists” and they don’t care about that because a lot of money is at stake.
Nasir Jamshed is one for the future, still very young and enormously talented. In fact I think this kid can do a better job than Butt, Nazir & co. Khurram Manzoor is another player with a good record of consistency. I don’t think Khalid Latif is a defensive player but I think Afridi’s strategy has been for one opener to go on attack and for the other to absorb pressure and defend.
It has been nice to see Afridi picking up wickets. Let us hope his batting clicks as well. I also want to make a special mention of Kamran Hussain, who is a mature player with a credible domestic reputation. Sohail Tanvir, Kamran Hussain and Yasir Arafat are three players who can replace Razzaq on a permanent basis. I did not like Yasir when he made his debut but in the past year or so he has improved drastically.
Javed:
You forgot to mention Afridi’s performance in the QA trophy finals where he failed miserably, Latif is still batting and there is no doubt that the guy has scored heavily in domestic tournaments and also against Australia A he is one of the future prospects and as you said in one of your earlier posts we should not judge any youngster just after one match.It will be unfair to them.
At the end of the day of the first 4 day match between Zimbabwe and the Patrons XI, the home team has placed themselves very well. Although Shahid Afridi was the most successful and most economical of all the bowlers, he took 4 wickets for 27 with an economy rate of 2.31 But, in the cricinfo bulletin Faras Ghani did not highlight it as an achievement.
One needs to see how he bats and leads the team from the front. Afridi has always bowled very well against Zimbabwe and his best ODI bowling performance is against Kenya in 2004 at Birmingham, UK when he took 5 for 11
So far Nasir Jamshed has played well, but Khalid Latif seems to be struggling at a strike rate of 24. Recently When he was sent to India as a reinforcement garrison, there was so much hype about him that he is one of those young talented and budding players who has scored a lot in the domestic circuit.
But, Khalid Latif is definitely out of form because, just two weeks ago at the Quaid -e- Azam trophy match against Habib Bank he scored only 5 and their team performed very badly against Shahid Afridi’s HBL, unfortunately the match was called off due to BB’s assassination. And in that match Afridi smashed 70 runs in 78 balls before getting run out. And the irony is the selectors think he is out of form?
In my opinion PCB should always state the exact reason for dropping a player as when they coverup the indiscipline of certain players it not only emboldens such players but also PCB openly shows its ineptness in dealing with rogue players and their player power.
The Team selection is not only weird but is also confusing as in my opinion barring the senior members in the 21 selected and maybe a few others I think the probables of the side match are better than the new players in the 21 selected.
Junaid Zia, Shadab Kabir,Salman Ahmed, Rauf Akbar and Wahab Riaz were a surprise selection as they were not even in the picture a week ago.
If rebuilding is our goal then this is the best opportunity, I believe if we play Kamran Akmal, Afridi, and Shoaib Akhtar and even Younis Khan against Zimbabwe they will certainly perform well against this minnow team and will cement their place in the team for another year. If we have to develop and test our bench then this is the team against which we should try out young players so that we can field a better combination of players against Australia.
I am not saying that Pakistan should permanently discard these seniors but we should certainly rest them in this series and should try out other players in their position for future replacement.
We need two openers one for bench and one for immediate induction, I dont think Shadab Kabir is a good option as he played his last ODI 10 years ago he is too old and certainly not a long term prospect we should play Afaq Rahim, Khurram and Khalid Latif.
We should find the future ODI replacement for Younis Khan.
We all know how Afridi is going to perform we should try out Fawad in his place because so far we have only gotten a glimpse of him.
Kamran Akmal needs to be rested and Sarfraz should be played in his place.The biggest problem is the pace attack, with Sami,Shoaib, Asif and gul not playing we are only left with Rao ifti, Sohail Tanvir
and Arafat. We need to find the replacement for Shoaib, So I think instead of playing all three senior bowlers in every match we should try out at least one new fast bowler in each match.
Pressure is mounting on Shoaib Malik as if he doesn’t start improving his bowling it will be very difficult for Pakistan to field a balanced side. As we need two spinners and two Allrounders in the team for Odis. In the recent Past Hafeez and Afridi were sharing the middle overs and were doing a pretty good job there but both of them failed miserably with the bat, now in the absence of Hafeez, Malik will have to bowl otherwise he does not deserves a place in the team or else we will play every match with five bowlers only which is a risky proposition.
THE PCB HAS TWO SET OF RULES
The point that I had made in my comments above that Shoaib Malik cannot justify his place in the team has been taken up by the local Pakistani media. And I am glad that he is now the target for being the weakest captain Pakistan has ever produced. Or the PCB has even created.
Take a look at this link from DAWN
http://www.dawn.com/2008/01/14/spt4.htm
“Sallu The Mallu” has been rightly criticized by the media and the caption is so apt i.e., “what is good for the goos is not good for the gander.”
Shoaib Malik was not fit, his foot was in plaster for several weeks and yet he is fit whereas others are not. Also his paltry contribution with the bat and ball is nothing to write home about. And his captaincy was criticized even by a 6 years old. So, on what basis Shoaib Malik got a nod from Sallu?
Sallu and the other Ullu Naseem Ashraf should be sacked before they damage the future of Pakistan cricket.
MY Dear Kasim
I used to write there regularly, but I don’t like the get up of 606 and also of Jonathan Agnew’s website. There is so much clutter that your comments are lost in the wilderness.
I used to like Pak Spin BUT they have introduced silly rules and also there is a very strong anti-Pakistani lobby that censors or even delete the comments of the regular Pakistani bloggers and I am one of the victims so I have stopped writing there and I will NOT write there EVER AGAIN. I am sure some of the other bloggers have experienced the same and I want them to come forward and express their experiences.
Despite the selection, I think it will be 4-1 or 5-0 to Pak. But they might have problems against Australia if they don’t select the best players.
How about an article on the Shaun Pollock retirement?
I have also written about the same subject in the BBC’s 606 debate and would request Messrs. Wasim Saqib, Khansahab,
Javed A. Khan in particular and other bloggers in general to kindly have a look and comment on it. Thanks.
What is the sense in selecting Mohammed Yousuf, Younus Khan, Misbah-ul Haq, Kamran Akmal and Salman Butt is beyond me. They all are automatic choices. What we need is to find out how good our bench strength is and can they take over when the time calls. The world will not end if we lose a couple of matches. We can always fall back on our senior players and make it 3-2. And the most important thing is to bring out at least six to eight real fast bowlers, not medium-pacers, a pool from which to choose from as was the case with the West Indies in the early 70s and 80s
when they had an abundant of world class fast bowlers and it became a problem for them as to whom to select and whom to leave out!!
I think the probable list of 21 is weird. Like khansahab, I’ve also noticed and I do remember that Shoaib Akhtar announced that he is available for the Zimbabwe series. If they do not wish to include him in the team, they should call a spade, a spade. They must say he is unfit or he is over the hill or whatever and, we want to give the youngsters a chance, instead of saying he is injured. The fact is, he is not injured, he is simply unfit.
Keeping Shahid Afridi away from the list of 21 and at the same time appointing him as a captain to lead the Patrons XI is a weird way to test a player’s performance or his abilities. A player like Shahid Afridi does not need to prove his worth in one match. Any player, be it Afridi, Yuvraj, Sehwag, when they reach to this level and have such exposure and experience of playing international matches should not be dumped like this. I very strongly believe that had Afridi played in that world cup match against Ireland, things would have been very different.
Pakistan has already ruined his confidence and that of so many other players as well by yo-yo-ing them and dropping them from time to time. If Afridi needs to prove his worth then Shoaib Malik also needs to prove his worth. Just because he is the captain doesn’t mean he should be in the side, he has struggled and limped through out the series against India.
In my opinion this is not the time to experiment with so many new players in the team, their induction in the team must be gradual. In fact this is an opportunity to give the regular players a chance to regain their touch and confidence. If they score against a team like Zimbabwe, which is very likely they will, then it will boost their confidence for the next home series i.e., in case IF Australia arrives amidst the political turmoil and the post election fever (i.e., if the elections are held).
Wasim Saqib,
This is only a provisional squad and the notable performers in the PCB Patron’s game vs Zimbabwe will also be considered in the final 15. As far as Shoaib Akhtar and Umar Gul are concerned, they are reported injured. However this is quite bizarre since only yesterday I read in the news that Shoaib has made himself available for the Zimbabwe series. The time has come for us to decide whether it is recommended to keep including Shoaib in squads as the chances of him getting injured and affecting the team morale are always very high.
It seems that the Selection Committee has been unfair to Fawad Alam, Sarfraz, Samiullah and Khurram Manzoor because there is a lesser likelihood of players from PCB Patron’s XI being selected in the final 15 but these players will now have to give their 100% if they want a chance to play against Zimbabwe.
Also the selection of some players like Shadab Kabir, Naumanullah and Naved Latif is baffling because despite giving good performances recently, these players are not the best talents in the country. For instance Shadab has been amongst the highest scoring openers recently in domestic circuit but otherwise his performance has been average. This type of mentality discriminates against people like Khurram Manzoor who has continuously given consistent performances for some time. The same can be said of Sohail Khan who has been made a megastar just because he took many wickets in one tournament whereas bowlers like Tanvir Ahmed, Samiullah Niazi and Abdur Rauf who have been consistent for a long time are being ignored.
I still think this Selection Committee is better than previous ones but it is far from perfect.
Finally PCB has announced 21 players for the Odi series against Zimbabwe, noteable ommissions are Shoaib Akhtar, Shahid Afridi,
and Umar gul.
The 21 players selected are as follows:
Shoaib Malik (capt), Salman Butt, Shadab Kabir, Khurram Manzoor, Mohammad Yousuf, Younis Khan, Misbah-ul-Haq, Naveed Latif, Kamran Akmal (wk), Salman Ahmed, Rao Iftikhar, Sohail Tanvir, Yasir Arafat, Mansoor Amjad, Abdur Rauf, Rauf Akbar, Junaid Zia, Wahab Riaz, Anwar Ali, Tahir Khan, Saeed Ajmal.
Many new names have been selected in the final 21 some of them have been obvious while their are a few names whose selection seems to be questionable.
What do you guys think about the selection?
I have been saying this and will keep repeating that unless we blood new talents which are there for everybody to see except for the inept and corrupt PCB and its Selection Commitee, we will never ever build a balanced and strong team. Now is the time to bring forward the real strength. Pakistan has always been blessed and thrived on its pace strength. From the day one, Fazal Mahmood, Khan Mohammed and then Mehmood Hussain and later on after a lean period, Asif Masood, Sarafaz Nawaz and finally Imran Khan along with Sikander Bakht, Azeem Hafeez and one of the current seletors, Saleem Jaffer and others came on the scene and Pakistan was on the rise again. Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis, Aaqib Javed a supporting cast of others made Pakistan the most lethal bowling attack since the days of Lillee-Thomson and the dreaded West- Indies of 70s and 80s.
Now the PCB says it is looking for future Wasims and Waqars
Wasims and Waqars don’t grow on trees! They are groomed.
Thats what the National Cricket Academy is supposed to be doing. And I understand thats what they have done acoording to the media reports. Aaqib Javed and Mudassar Nazar, two of the best cricketers Pakistan has produced are looking after
the Academy and have spotted, trained and groomed several talented youngsters, mainly fast bowlers, for the last couple of years. Among them are Abdur Rauf, Mohammed Irshad, Najaf Shah, plus Anwar Ali, Jamshed Ahmed from previous under 19s and Sohail Khan the new sensation and many more of whom I, half-way round the world am not aware of should be given a go against Zimbabwe and forget about Rawalpindi Express who is nothing more than “Maal Gari ” and stop crying about Mohammed Asif and Umar Gul. After all, even Imran Khan was laid-off for almost two seasons if I am not mistaken and Pakistan did manage without him.
As far as batting is concerned, we are almost well set. Salman Butt has matured now and I am hooting for a long time for Kamran Akmal as a specialist batsman and that as an opener. YK + MoYo +MulHaq +SMalik makes as solid a middle order as you can get. Now is time to try the bench srength. Khurram Manzoor, Khatid Latif, Fawad Alam, Sarfaraz Ahmed and several others could get in a look. I have not noticed any outstanding spinner coming up and what we have are crap.
And the most important suggestion I want to make is this.
Take a big Dumpster, not a Trash Can. Dump Rawalpindi Express, Boom Boom, Imran Nazir, Mohammed Hafeez, Yasir Hameed, Mohammed Sami, Faisal Iqbal, Danish Kaneria et all.
Forgrt about Abdul Razzak, Shahid Nazir, and their ilk. They have served their country well, very many Thanks. Look to the future or make room for others who will.
PACE PACE AND EXPRESS ACE that is the secret of glory and success as has been demonstrated by late Fazal Mahmood and Khan Mohammed, Imran Khan and Sarfaraz Nawaz, Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis and the West-Indies ruled for two decades.
Who will hammer this simple truth into the thick heads of the PCB bosses and its lackeys?
Shoaib is a male whore he should not play cricket anymore. I agree with the writer it will be 3-2 in favour of Pakistan.
Pakistan will clean sweep Zimbabwe 5-0.
I think Shoaib should not play he is done and he should get married and settled with that whore in the above picture.PCB should start playing youngsters.
If Zimbabwe are minnows then I must say that Pakistan is also a minnow. This is something the PCB management also knows and that is why one day they say they will rest the senior players and the next day they completely give an opposite statement.
I think Pakistan will not get another opportunity to try out young players they should take ful advantage of this.
Shoaib Akhter should be rested, alongwith Afridi, Younis Khan and Kamran Akmal. But despite all the statements PCB always does the opposite they have adopted this new policy of tough talking before every series in an order to keep the nation satisfied and the media quiet, but as soon as the series approaches we get the same old tactics. Shoaib Akhtar will play along with other seniors and most of the youngsters will not get a chance to play that is my prediction.