This tour will be a huge test for the Indian team for a variety of reasons. We all know that Australia are a tough, almost impossible team to beat (especially in Tests) and therefore this tour will be a test of resilience for the Indian players. It has been a strange year for the Indians. Right from a pathetic World Cup campaign to the victory in the Twenty20 Cup and then again a largely unsuccessful series against Australia, to the recently concluded successful series versus Pakistan. The other reason why this tour stands as a test for the Indians is because they have now a new Test captain who has shown himself to be astute and proactive although he was too defensive against Pakistan. My guess is that Kumble will be more aggressive against Australia- in fact I think he has no option but to be aggressive because the Australians will not be as generous with their wickets as Pakistanis were. India has also seen the rise of Dhoni and Yuvraj who are now demanding more respect as their performance has been exemplary of late. These players will also be tested as a lot will rest on their capable shoulders. However as with everything I think the onus will still be on the seniors (Tendulkar, Ganguly, Dravid and Laxman) to see that their team musters a respectable score, because they have tonnes of experience and it is experienced players who usually emerge victorious in tough situations.
Although experience and overall class of the Indian batsmen is to be applauded, it must also be stressed that generally pitches in Australia feature a higher bounce (compared to India) and hence batsmen have to play on the up. The first few overs of the match provide an excellent opportunity for the Aussies to exploit this weakness of the Indian batsmen. Ganguly’s weakness against the short ball is certain to be exploited. Dravid has also suffered from inconsistent form recently. His confidence has taking a beating following his exclusion from the ODI series against Pakistan. He wasn’t at his best in the Test series and his confidence will be challenged by the charged up and mentally aggressive Aussie pacers. Yuvraj and Dhoni do not have much experience playing overseas Tests and they have a point to prove, but on the other hand playing a Test match overseas against such a competent team will test their wits and it will be a new arena for them.
It is difficult to predict the exact nature of Australian pitches. Arguably Australian pitches are unique worldwide in that they offer everything in almost equal proportions to everyone- the pacers, the spinners and the batsmen. Recently pitches throughout Australia have become flattened to facilitate the batsmen. Traditionally the Sydney and Melbourne pitches have also assisted the spinners considerably. This is a positive for Indians because Kumble and Harbhajan are in good form.
For those who are unaware of the Test squad, it is: Wasim Jaffer, Virender Sehwag, Dinesh Karthik, Rahul Dravid, Sachin Tendulkar, Sourav Ganguly, VVS Laxman, Yuvraj Singh, Mahendra Singh Dhoni (wk), Anil Kumble (capt), Harbhajan Singh, Zaheer Khan, RP Singh, Irfan Pathan, Ishant Sharma, Pankaj Singh.
This appears to be a balanced Indian side as India are going with five specialist pacers. Ishant Sharma was effective in some spells against Pakistan whereas Pankaj Singh is yet to make his debut. The latter seems to have a decent reputation in the domestic circuit and the Indian selectors speak highly of him. Although it is balanced in terms of quantity, with five specialist pacers, in terms of quality this squad weighs heavily in favour of batsmen because two of the pacers have almost no international experience. This comes as no surprise because the Indian batting is always stronger than the bowling. Although the Australian pitches have something for everyone India will struggle generally to acclimatise to the conditions because in this recent series against Pakistan the pitches were completely flat.
Virender Sehwag has been a questionable inclusion because of haphazard form of late but it must be mentioned here that he averages 55 in Australia. His spin bowling although not reliable can surprise on occasions. His only problem is complacency. Otherwise he would have the same stature that Gilchrist has in world cricket. Laxman averages 60 in Australia and Dravid and Tendulkar average 55. So the Indian batsmen can challenge Australia’s bowling but let us now examine Australian batsmen against Indian bowlers. Hayden averages 62 versus India, Gilchrist averages 30, Ponting averages 52 and Clarke averages 57. There seems to be an equal contest here, but if you analyse the performance of Australian batsmen against India IN Australia, you will see greater averages than those.
In the pace attack Australia emerge clear winners because of Lee, Tait and Johnson. The Indian pace attack still lacks the “zing” factor that can consistently help the team take quick top order wickets. Despite the recent milestones achieved by RP and Zaheer, India still lacks serious pace which is so significant on slow pitches. However for all his youth and pace Tait will be under severe pressure firstly because he will be facing the best batsmen in the business and secondly because now his action is under scrutiny.
Hence to summarise, it seems to be an equal contest with bat. With the bowling, I feel Australia have an edge because the pitches will assist the pacers in the first few overs, after which they will start favouring the spinners. India has an edge with two world class spinners in the side and hence a lot will depend on how much the pitch is favouring the spinners. Recently Harbhajan made a comment about Macgill and Hogg saying that there is a difference between the class of both players. There is some truth in that statement because Hogg although an ODI specialist is not the first choice spinner when it comes to Tests. But Hogg can bat a bit which will boost the already competent batting line up of the Australians. Symonds is a tremendous asset for the Australians in ODI’s but he is injured at present and his absence will hurt Australia. ODI’s will be more competitive than the Tests. We must also take into account Australia’s fielding; although the Indian fielding has improved of late the Australians are the best in the business as far as fielding is concerned. However, when all is said and done, my mind tells me Australia may well prevail simply because India do not have an enviable record outside the Subcontinent.
Let me suggest the title of new thread … “How to beat Australia in Pakistan”. We can work out some sensible and realistic method regarding this. BTW when is australia touring pak … i mean in which month?
Let us start a new thread about Pakistan cricket and suggestions as to how to get it back to its rightful upper half position and not the whipping boys of boastful brats. Any ideas guys?
And Happy Eid Mubarak (belatedly, sorry about that)
about hogg, people are saying he should be used only in sydney. i think 1 specialist spinner is necessary on all Australian pitches. three fast bowlers and 1 spinner is enough i think
Assalamualaikum Wasim Bhai,
This is a high profile series for India but we have to think about a few things. Regardless of the result of the series no changes are likely to happen in both teams because Australia stand as clear favourites. So in my opinion this is only a test for Indian players and nothing else. If they win a single match it will be a huge morale boost but if they lose, then we are kind of expecting that.
I don’t think we should underestimate India’s batting but at the same time we should not rule out the weak pace bowling. What I think is interesting is that this team the Indian team is very confident and their mental strength is on the test here really.
Regarding Pakistan I am surprised that no major changes have happened. Today it was in the news that Sami and Hafeez have been deprived of central contracts. This action seems permanent which is great for Pakistan cricket but I was hoping more changes to happen. In particular I think the senior cricketers should all be made redundant. The seniors will not change their performance and they will last another 3-4 years. So it is best they are removed now.
Dr Haroon
Seattle
Amit, I know Hogg bowled really well in India, and the Indian batsmen have trouble reading his chinaman deliveries. But that was in the ODIs. Hogg averages 50 in Tests. And though he is an improved bowler now, I still think Australia is better off with 4 pacers. India have never played Tait, so they will have something totally new to contend with. I remember when India toured in 1999/00 Lee got 13 wickets in 2 Tests in what was his debut series. Tait can do the same this time. Lee won the Man of the Series award against Sri Lanka, so he can be dangerous. Clark is a a very accurate bowler and can bowl with great control. Johnson adds variety to the attack and can trouble the batsmen with the pace he generates, along with the awkward angle he creates.
You are right that they should play Hogg at Sydney. In Sydney, they should drop Johnson (not Tait), in place of Hogg. But at the other venues, I would go with 4 pacers.
@Samy,
Boss u r underestimating hogg and overestimating their pace attack. Hogg is not an orthodox spinner and now he got a very deceptive wrong one. In recent odis he seems to trouble indians and i m sure they are not going to take him lightly. In aus bowling line-up only clarke seems to bowl longer spells so they need one more bowler who can sweat hard without loosing accuracy and intensity and for that matter hogg is quite ok. In other extreme scenario when they play 4 pacers in tough bowling condition, and suppose indians survive early bursts then i hardly see tait and johnson bowling with same intensity and speed. Same thing happens with lee in the last tour, he was quite ineffective, though there was same fuss of indian not playing pace well before the series and waugh was playing mental game thinking lee as his trump card. I am sure ponting must considering this whole pace theory too. Adelaide and Perth are bouncy and hard so they take risk of playing 4 pacers there, not in Melbourne and Sydney.
@khansahab,
Your line of thinking is also valid thats why sehwag is recalled in the team. If they are going to gamble on sehwag then he must be given a chance in the first couple of matches. Coming first time on the pitch in Adelaide or Perth and expecting big runs from him will be a lot difficult. But again i will support jaffer and will let yuvi out of 11 to make way for sehwag. Though jaffer’s ave. is not good outside india but i have seen him playing comfortably in SA and Eng once he cut-down his early stroke-play.
Jaffer has played 5 oppositions to date: Bangladesh, England, Pakistan, South Africa, West Indies
He averages 24 in England and 31 in South Africa, where the pitches assist the bowlers. In West Indies he averages 44, where the pitches are somewhat slower as opposed to England and South Africa.
So I would not call him an expert on foreign pitches. I know it’s still early days for him but according to statistics he does not play bowling tracks as well as Sehwag, Dravid or Tendulkar. Of course the pitches in Australia are slower than South Africa and England and Sehwag has not been in excellent form. But if I were an attacking captain I would still use Sehwag.
I agree with Amit p. about Jaffer and Harbhajan. I think Jaffer should definitely be chosen over Sehwag. I know Viru averages 55 in Australia but his form since then has dipped considerably. In fact, the reason he was selected for this tour remains a mystery, since his performances even in the Ranji trophy weren’t that great. Jaffer, on the other hand is in great form and he deserves a chance in Australia. I think Jaffer played Shoaib quite well in Delhi (when Shoaib was bowling well) and I think he has done a decent job outside the sub-continent.
Harbhajan Singh wasn’t in great bowling form against Pakistan (despite the 5-wicket haul) and I feel he should only be played in Sydney. Bhajji dosen’t look like the bowler he used to be. I think he is bowling more defensively now. Even Murali was not very successful in Australia, so India should play only 1 spinner.
Australia should play 4 pacers and omit Hogg. This would make them even more invincible, and there would be no weak link for India to exploit, since the Indian batsmen relish spin.
My XI & batting order for India would be-
Jaffer
Dravid
Tendulkar
Ganguly
Laxman
Yuvraj
Dhoni
Kumble
Zaheer(if he is fit)/Pankaj Singh(should be tried)/Bhajji(In Sydney)
RP
Ishant
Khansahab, the reason why last time indian batting clicked big-time in aus is the solidity provided by openers(sehwag & A chopra). They almost every time provided 50 – 60 runs partnerships. Indian middle-order never faced (except once where ganguly scored 140 and resuced india) difficult situation though sachin was in terrible form. This time there is a question mark on openers, and middle order more likely to face some 30-2 or 30-3 situation. If sehwag wud have been in good form then there is no point in getting yuvi in the side but the scenario is different this time. And jaffer did well outside india, scoring 200 in WI, hundred in SA and 2 or 3 half centuries in Eng. And all three instances were difficult for batting. I agree, his early footwork is not good but in all the above mentioned instances he scored just due to his approach, cutting down early strokeplay where footwork is must and leaving the ball outside offstump.
Its been a time since laxman played at no3 so he will be edgy at this spot. Now 2 of the middle-order is playing out of place and aus will try their best to exploit this. Thats why i m in favor of playing yuvi rather than bhaji. If all well with batting order in the opening match then kumble will sure think of playing bhaji in the next match. Instead of bhaji if karthik wud be here then he might be a tempting option. I might sound crazy but bhaji is no longer a test match bowler.
Going by the latest reports jaffer and sehwag both are likely to play and yuvi is going to sit out so is bhaji. I can clearly see the reason .. kumble doesn’t like to mess with middle-order, and is taking the risk of playing sehwag. Pretty calculated and balanced approach.
We are experiencing some technical problems with our hosting server .We apologise for any inconvenience caused to our visitors.
Thank you for your support.
I see your point of view Amit P but my objections are thus:
1) Jaffer has an average record outside India- he seems to me to be a flat track bully (at this stage in his career anyway). When I say “average” I mean average in the Indian context. I don’t think a player who has an average of 55 (Sehwag) in Australia should be ignored. India will have to take chances and think aggressively. We know Jaffer has some problems with his footwork- so does Sehwag but the latter is more experienced and I think a lesser liability.
2) I think it is likely Australia will bring in Johnson instead of Tait- or they may actually omit Clark although in terms of record he is their second best bowler. But India has a traditional weakness facing pace and so I think Tait may be more effective, although Johnson is pretty quick himself
3) Yuvraj is not a main bowler. He like Ganguly or Tendulkar gets wickets by chance. India have always kept their batting too strong traditionally and omitted the fifth specialist bowler and usually they have had to pay the price. I know Yuvraj is in imperious form but I would go for experienced batsmen because this is a high profile series for India. Also, Harbhajan has been selected as a specialist spinner and it makes very little sense to not play him at Sydney or Melbourne. At Perth India can exclude Harbhajan if they want but I don’t think Kumble on his own can wreck Australia’s batting if the pitch is supporting spin. If this was England or South Africa where the pitches do not assist the spinners as much India would have been alright with playing only one specialist. I just get the gut feeling that by playing 4 specialist bowlers India will shoot themselves in the foot. There is no need for such actions when they have such a spectacular batting line up. Look at the averages of all of India’s batsmen against Australia- I don’t think the batting needs to be strengthened any further.
In indian line-up i wont go for bhaji …. i cant imagine bhaji going to take 5 wickets in a match against aussies. I may agree upon him in sydney but here he is more likely to be a waste. Now considering the fact that murli karthik has troubled aussies in the last tour and just completed odi series, i opt for yuvi to fulfill the role of left armer. This can be a way to boast indian batting line-up. If yuvi doesn’t take wickets atleast he can bowl as a change bowler and that will give kumble an option. Personally i dont like to replace jaffer with sehwag, since later is in terrible form. In the current form i cant imagine sehwag scoring even 30 whereas jaffer is in very good touch. All he needs is to be patient for first 15 overs to get feel of bounce and pace before playing his strokes and i m optimistic ab’t jaffer’ approach. Its tempting to put sehwag in the line-up specially since he made a blistering 195 at the same venue in the last tour but it will be a highly risky now.
Indians will love to see johnson sitting on bench rather than in the field. In all the matches he played against indians he was the most difficult bowler to score even par with lee and clarke. Tait may be wicket taking prospect for aussies against indians in odis (since u have to score fast), but in test matches shear pace wont work often. That why i think tait wont be in final 11 for the first couple of matches. They will bring variety rather than shear pace.
Does anyone want to mention their preferred playing XI for India in the first match? I would go with:
Sehwag
Dravid
Tendulkar
Ganguly
Laxman
Dhoni
Kumble
Harbhajan
Zaheer
RP
Ishant
Sehwag averages 55 in Australia so I think he should be given a chance. Dravid is the best man to open because he plays the moving ball really well. Also if the Indians don’t go with 5 specialist bowlers they will most likely suffer. That is why both the spinners need to play and then of course they need three specialist pacers. I would opt for Ishant over Pathan because he can generate some pace when he hits the deck and I think with three left armers the Indian pace attack will appear too one dimensional. Although Yuvraj is in exceptional form I think India should opt for Dhoni because the other keeper, Karthik, has been in terrible batting form recently.
Australia’s playing XI:
Jacques
Hayden
Ponting
Hussey
Clarke
Gilchrist
Symonds
Hogg
Lee
Tait
Clark
Although Symonds’ Test batting average is only 33 he actually averages 42 in Australia which is not bad for someone who will probably come to bat at no 6 or 7. The Aussie Test squad consists of 12 players; I have omitted Johnson as there is no need to go with 4 specialist pacers and also because it is either him or Tait and I think owing to Tait’s superior pace he should be selected.
India were 138/4 before rain stopped play. Ganguly scored a fifty and he seems to be in form, but it remains to be seen whether he can cope up with the express pace and bounce of Lee, Johnson, Clark and Tait. Dravid too got some vital practice, but India will be a bit disappointed that Jaffer, Laxman and sachin could not bat a bit more. I think they must stick with Dravid opening the innings as it is the only way they can fit in Yuvraj.
The practice match is heading for a draw because of the rain and India should declare early to give their bowlers, especially the inexperienced duo of Ishant Sharma and Pankaj Singh, some match practice, and see if they are good enough to play in the 1st Test, now that Zaheer is injured.
I agree with Wasim that there should’ve been more practice matches. I also think that the scheduling of the matches, both in the India-Pak series and the current one, could have been better.
Eid Mubarak to all.
India are going to play the first test without much of practice in Australia as their match against Victoria on the first day was washed out after the first session and there are forcasts for rain in the following days too.
India recovered from 3 for 38 from 10 overs to 3 for 110 in 38 overs thanks to Ganguly (51 not out )and Rahul (33 not out) both of them restored the innings and it is encouraging for the tourists that Ganguly and Dravid are carrying over their form in Australia.The first three wickets fell in quick succession Jaffer, and Laxman found it hard to adjust to the extra bounce however Sachin was batting comfortably untill he choped one onto his stumps.
For such an important and long series there should have been more practice matches to give the tourists a chance to acclimatize to the conditions. I think the big three will do just fine but if India’s younger batsmen managed to perform as they did against Pakistan we will have a very competitive series.
Australia has advantage in the pace department but in Australia the wickets are very hard and the ball wears off very quickly and India can capitalize on this as their spin department is far more experienced and superior to that of Aussie’s.
India should make an adjustment to accomodate Yuvraj singh he is in the form of his life and he can take the attack to the Aussies.
http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/pakistan/content/story/315169.html
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,22956511-5001023,00.html
Wasim..with all due respect..i think you got it wrong..i dont think sachin plays slowly in tests..i especially used to notice his habit of blasting a quick fire 50..getting singles till 80 and then again 4-5 quick boundaries..to get to the magical 3 figure mark..its only since last year that we feel hes gone a bit slow as he has missed 7 hundreds..and i guess its normal to have the nervous nineties syndrome after missing out on 7 tons!!
Dose someone have his scoring rate for tests?
@ ramiz
“khansahab,what you have missed is that a hallmark of a selfless player is that he intervenes in a high pressure situation and leads the team to victory by taking measured risks. inzi did that loads of times but how many times have you seen tendulkar and dravid do that?”
Are u talking ab’t tests or onedayers .. If u r talking ab’t onedayers then go and see all the players who bat at no5 or 6 and then u will find that when these no5 or 6 guys scores big their team won, and no lower middle order batsmen score slowly ..they all play with reasonable strike-rate. Compare UV … go and see how many times india won when he scores even 50, his percentage will be around 75 (its just my guess .. haven’t checked it .. some pls check it out).
You cant put inzi in the league of sachin and lara specially in onedayers.
Now coming to test matches … have u seen inzi playing great bowlers like Mcdarmott, donald, Mcgrath … etc with such confidence specially at their home when ball is moving around. How many good knocks of inzi u remember playing against these teams and showing pak victory solely on his batting? You can only pic those matches playing against not such great bowling teams. He was a good player on bouncy tracks .. but on moving one he is far behind sachin and lara. Thats why he opted out to bat lower down the order when the ball get softer and easier to play.
hey hrishi, man why are you disheartened at that loser aamir’s post? there are people here who want to discuss cricket seriously- so let us discuss the game with them. by taking an action like you have decided you are no better than aamir. i think aamir will face loads of flak for his comment and i request the moderator to ban him. by taking unreasonable reactions to unreasonable actions we are not projecting a good image of india. keep posting dude!
Hrishi,
You should not be sentimental. This blog was created to support freedom of speech. I think the reason why the blog owner allowed Aamir’s comment is so that people can criticise him and some constructive discussion can take place.
I faced lots of criticism on Pakspin- in fact I was singled out most of the times as I was arguably the only regular (Pakistani) blogger taking India’s side on various occasions, but I did not give up. This blog offers you more freedom than Pakspin does and why do you think the thread on the India-Australia series has been started? Wasim Saqib like me is Pakistani but he started a thread on India because he wants the blog to be for Indians as much as for Pakistanis. If an Indian would have made an inciting comment too against Pakistan I am sure Wasim Saqib would have allowed that.
Your comments are astute and respected- I would suggest you to keep posting and ignore any comments you find unpleasant.
Hrishi:
You were right I am only discussing the test performances of the Indian and Pakistani batsmen, but I dont know why you called me Indian hater maybe you overlooked my comments for Younis Khan and Mohammed Yousuf, I am talking in general about the batsmen from subcontinent and if we discuss our weaknesses and correct our weaknesses only then we can become strong.But the sad thing is that whenever an Indian will criticize a Pakistani player all the Pakistanis will go in denial and the same is true vice versa so I will suggest to my Indian friends to take it lightly as we are here only to discuss and not to fight.
Ramiz,
Tendulkar bats as an opener in ODIs whereas Inzi batted further down the line. When an opener scores a big innings it seems as if there was no pressure to begin with. When a #5 or #6 comes to bat there is a heightened sense of pressure, especially if the top order batsmen haven’t performed well. Tendulkar has to stand up to the weight of expectations of a billion people EVERY TIME HE COMES TO BAT. If you think he doesn’t deliver under pressure, you are kidding yourself. Just go back and view world cup 2003 matches, especially the India Pak match. I hope you watched the two 90′s in this India Pak series.
Wasim,
When you complain about Tendulkar’s scoring rate being too slow (“a quick 60 scored at a higher SR is better than a hundred which is scored at a low SR”), I suppose you are talking about Tests and not ODIs. His strike rate for ODIs is 86 runs per 100 balls. Inzi’s strike rate is 74. Check CricInfo record pages. Can you support your claim that Tendulkar plays too slow? If your logic about selfishness vis-a-vis scoring rate were correct, Tendulkar manages to be not selfish in ODIs but somehow selfish in Tests, all the while being the same human being.
You also claimed that Tendulkar’s scores have not helped the team win. Whose fault is that? Tendulkar or the rest of India’s team? When India have lost in spite of Tendulkar’s big scores (e.g. that 141 in Malaysia), has it been because he scored too slow or was it because the rest of the batsmen folded? Sachin scored two 90′s this India Pak series. India won once and lost the other. Was it Sachin’s fault?
Anyway. It doesn’t really matter what we all think.
The audience of this blog is mostly India haters. See Aamir’s blog above, how happy he is now that Dhoni will be screwed by Australian bowlers. Good luck, guys, I won’t be visiting this blog again. Eid Mubarak to all.
when i saw wah cricket the indian programme,indians were so happy when dhoni play debut series vs pakistan.there was headlines “dhoni nay ki dhunai” and they were so excited like another sachin tendulkar has been born. well i agree with kaalia that “ab dhoni ki dhunai hogi”
inzi was truly a world class player. many people compare him with tendulkar and lara. he was their equal when it came to class.
khansahab,what you have missed is that a hallmark of a selfless player is that he intervenes in a high pressure situation and leads the team to victory by taking measured risks. inzi did that loads of times but how many times have you seen tendulkar and dravid do that?
because indian team has many batting geniuses they have record of engaging in partnerships with each other but what they are poor at is playing fighting innings under pressure and leading the team to victory.on the issue of selfish batting i will disagree with you and agree with wasim saqib.
Khansahab I think you haven’t read my comments throughly I never said you were criticizing MY and Yk I wrote that I have been criticizing them a lot and my criticisim is not only for the Indian batsmen but for most of the batsmen from subcontinent as when they are scoring big they mostly go for personal milestones rather than going for a win.
For me a quick 60 scored at a higher SR is better than a hundred which is scored at a low SR and doesn’t help a team in producing a favorable result. No body can deny the batting genius of Sachin, Rahul, Mohammed Yousuf but at times they do become extermely selfish.
Hrishi..i suggest you surf through pakspin..check out the personally abusive comments of the person your defending and come back to me.I am all for constructive critism.Look at khansab..such wonderful explanation he as provided..which is also so very convincing.
All that he blabbers about is indian batting greats are selfish..shoaib akthar is an actor and mukul had posted something ages ago which gives him the right to abuse left right and center.
And if someone honestly declines to captain the team as he knows hes not good enough ..he is branded selfish and playing for personal record!! ..i guess they are selfish because they dont have a pakistani passport and more so because their last names dont end in a khan…
Let him post some sane comments and trust me i will appreciate those..else he will only make G Bush come accross as a very learned person.
Salam Wasim sir,
I would like to congratulate indian team because australia has picked full strength squad
now india’s chances look weak. i like the picture you put up wasim sir. because i think india is going to be thrashed.i totaly agree with you, symonds will attack india and i think hogg should play because his spin is useful and he can bat too.australian are aggressive and play positive cricket whereas indian team has selfish batsmen, it has history of defensive captains and indian are not strong mentally.they will lose badly.
will be watching to see india wiggle their way out of this one. as someone on pakspin said, “ek din india ko bhi australia jaana hai”………
iwill also say, “dhoni pakistan ki dhunai karta hai leken dhoni ab teri dhunai honay waali hai”
Wasim Saqib,
Please don’t fight with me. I didn’t want to fight with you. I criticised Younis, not Yousuf in my comment. Have I been misunderstood?
And I didn’t accuse any particular player for being selfish- I said that “selfishness” is a subjective concept. I did not mean to accuse Inzamam of selfishness- I was just trying to show you two perspectives of one situation.
And I have always criticised the defensive captaincy of the Indians. I don’t think we can have any meaningful discussion until you elaborate more on what you consider to be “selfish batting”. The only time I think Tendulkar has appeared selfish is recently when he has been dismissed in the nervous 90′s. But we have to accept that he is not the same player anymore and he needs to work harder to make centuries now. A billion people in India and millions of people around the world want him to score a century every match. It is very human to be unable to handle this type of pressure if you are in the 90′s and if you are not the same player you were once upon a time. May I add here that the media has been very unjust to Tendulkar regarding his nervous 90′s problem because the imperious batting he has shown in reaching 90 has been ignored by the media and only what happens after 90 is brought into the limelight.
I totally agree with the excellent analysis by Khansahab and wants to add a few words: apart from Hanif Mohammed, Asif Iqbal, Mudassar Nazar, Javed Miandad, Inzemam-ul-Haq, Mohammed Yousuf and a few others, no Pakistani batsman has the basic skill or temprament needed to play a long innings. It is only their luck that last them, they have no idea what the situation demands or required of them, because the whole set up is in the wrong hands. A prime example is when Younus Khan asked for a FAST bowler and specifically named Abur Rauf, the Chief Operating Officer, Cricket ( I wonder if in the cricket board there could a Hockey, Wrestling or even a Kabaddi officer be) that Abdur Rauf is not only a fast bowler but a very competent batsman, hence an all-rounder, so he is sending Rao Iftekhar Anjum. Believe me, I have nothing personal against Rao, he is a good medium-paced bowler suitable for ODIs but not in Tests. While Abdur Rauf is a REALLY FAST bowler touching 90 mph according to Aaqib Javed who is grooming, training
and coaching all the emerging and upcoming talents in Pakistan. It is an added advantage if he can bat and not a DISQUALIFICATION. I know people will raise the question that he was a rookie and can not be rushed in to such an important Test as Bagalore. My argument is: if Ishant Sharma in his second test can capture 5 wickets and Yasir Arafat on his debut can also take 5 wickets and can hardly reach 80 mph, why Rauf with 90 mph can’t do the same, if not better, after all he has been groomed, trained and coached by one of Pakistan’s finest fast bowler, Aaqib Javed. In fact they, the PCB should have sent Mohammed Irshad and Anwar Ali as well instead of playing ” Rawalpindi Maal Gari ” and “Hair Stylist ” Mohammed Sami. We had already lost one Test, try our future strenghth. These young men might have brought the fear of god in the heart of batsmen with their thunderbolts, we would’ve seen how centuries and double-centurirs were piled.
I want to make a correction, Australia has announced the team for the first test and Brad Hogg and Shaun Tait have been included in the team its yet to be seen if they get selected in the final 11. I am absolutely sure about Tait as if he has nothing to hide as he claims then for sure he will play but he will definitely be under pressure as he knows that the third umpire will be watching him closely. I will not be surprised if we don’t see those 160mph deliveries which he has been bowling against the Kiwis.
Andrew symonds has also recovered and is fit to play, bad news for India.
Khansahab:
I used the term selfish for all the batsmen from subcontinent that includes Pakistani batsmen too, and scoring runs doesn’t mean everything the most important thing is when they are scored, where they are scored and at what pace they are scored.
You dont have to tell me about YK and MY as I have been criticizing them the most. I can assure you if Ponting or Smith were captaining in the third test instead of Kumble Pakistan would have lost the match.
I already wrote that the India’s success ratio in tests is partly due to their weak bowling but a fair amount of blame goes to defensive captaincy and Selfish batting.
well good luck to both teams but i think australia will win
indian team is improving but still not a great team. they beat pakistan but pakistan was weak team.also khansahab why you writing so much.give others chance to write too.
salam wasim bhai
i dont know what this khansahab is doing. khansaab, why are you supporting selfish batsmen of india who just want to add runs in their account and just go on.
i cant believe this nation of 1 billion and more people worships cricketers who are useless because they cant win matches for the country. this is the biggest joke.
let us see what these so called great indian batsmen do against bowlers like lee and tait
Wasim Saqib,
When you discuss whether the knocks of great players actually translate into victories of the team, you also need to look at how the bowlers back up the batsmen. We have discussed before that Inzamam was better than Tendulkar in the sense that whenever he scored big, Pakistan won.
But if the Indian bowlers have not been classy and have not helped the team defend reasonable scores, you can’t attribute that weakness to the batsmen because the batsmen’s job is to score runs, not take wickets. When you say that Indian batsmen have sometimes been selfish for their personal records- let us ask ourselves how they have reached that position where they have broken records? They have done it by scoring many, many runs all the time- hence my argument that we should not complain about selfishness in batting if a batsman is doing his job which essentially is making runs!
There was a period when Pakistan had Wasim, Waqar, Razzaq, Saqlain, Shoaib Akhtar etc who were all in good form in the late 1990′s and that was actually a period when Dravid and Ganguly were merely good batsmen, not legendary as they are now. During that period Tendulkar was the only saving grace for the Indians as he was the only reason why India ranked above minnows, since during that era the Indian bowling and fielding were very ordinary and teams like New Zealand and West Indies could beat India with relative ease. I know you have mentioned that keeping their batting in mind they should have won more matches but all I can say to that is, since 2003 Pakistan also had Inzamam, Younis and Yousuf that was known to be a world class middle order at least in Tests, but Pakistan’s Test record has been mediocre for these past 4 years or so and one of the reasons for that is because the bowling has been so weak, with Kaneria and Akhtar being the best bowlers but the latter being unfit so much and the former suffering from haphazard form. You can see India’s standing in Test cricket now- they are almost tied with South Africa for the third place. England have a poor record playing overseas and will most probably lose this current Test series against Sri Lanka. If India can put up a reasonable fight in Australia they will probably be elevated to the second place in the rankings. Now this is only happening because their bowlers are now complementing the batsmen. Zaheer and RP are picking wickets and Irfan has returned back to form. Munaf and Sreesanth suffer from fitness problems but they have good strike rates too. So the fast bowlers are doing their job now and there is simply no difference in the way the batsmen are playing- the major scorers are still the top 4 batsmen- Tendulkar, Dravid, Ganguly and Laxman. My opinion is that if the batsmen keep playing this way, the fielding level improves and India get one or two genuinely quick bowlers they can give Australia a run for their money. Of course that isn’t going to happen, but what I have said does establish that the batsmen are not doing much wrong. Trust me, if Pakistani batsmen do their basic job right which is to consistently apply their minds at the crease and score runs Pakistan will also become a top team. As the saying goes- get the basics right.
I am not saying here that Indian batsmen are perfect and have no weaknesses- my perception of selfish batting is putting matter over mind, becoming emotional and playing stupid shots which Younis and Afridi do all the time but Inzamam and Yousuf did/do not do as much. Also it is important to add here that “selfishness” in batting is a notion that is very subjective. It is something not spoken about a lot and hence there is a bit of a “curtain” on the concept. Imran Khan called Miandad a “selfish” batsman when Miandad complained about Imran declaring when Miandad was 280 not out. But people who love Miandad love him because they say his batting was totally selfless and he played for the team. Also, many people who love Inzamam say that he was not a selfish batsman. In 2007 Inzamam’s performance was mediocre but he still played in the Lahore Test versus South Africa despite being in ordinary form and not having much batting practice (he played a few matches for Yorkshire but did not do anything remarkable in those). What I am trying to say here, is that Inzamam was facilitated with that match because the PCB wanted to provide him an opportunity to break Miandad’s record and bow out gracefully. Anyone can point a finger and say that it was selfish for Inzamam to play in that match because he looked out of touch throughout the whole year (and also that match was crucial for Pakistan because they needed to win that to draw the series- an inform youngster could have been a better choice than an out-of-touch Inzamam) and it was rumoured he would retire from all forms of cricket after the WC- in fact many people advised him to do that as they knew his time in international cricket was over.
You mentioned some time ago that Yousuf is a selfish batsman. I don’t agree with you there because Yousuf has been Pakistan’s most consistent scorer for 2 or 3 years now. He was more consistent than Inzamam and today he is still a more consistent player than Younis. Barring negligible exceptions throughout Yousuf’s career he has at least scored one sizeable knock in any given series. If someone plays slow and does not want to take risks does not necessarily, in my view, mean that he is a selfish player. It all depends on the circumstances. Recently I have noticed that Yousuf has started to obtain lots of runs in singles and doubles but I think that is more to do with the added responsibility on his shoulders now that Inzamam is gone- he has minimised risk-taking by playing less expansive shots. Plus he has started to get run out so many times- he is still looking for quick runs and he is willing to take a chance which I don’t think indicates selfishness in batting. If I was playing beside Younis I would also not want to take risks and go for my shots because I would know that Younis Khan will be doing that and will probably be dismissed by doing that frequently.
Finally- we all know that usually, matches are won because of the effort of the whole team, not just one, two or three players. So in India’s case, I believe the batsmen have always done their job for the team by scoring a ridiculous amount of runs but the bowlers and fielders have not responded.
Khansahab, when Javed criticizes Tendulkar or other Indian batsmen he doesnt mean that they dont have any class at all he is saying that they are sometimes selfish in their approach and their personal goal gets more importance than their team goal and this statement is true for most of the batsmen from subcontinent, and we have seen batting greats from other parts of the world criticizing this approach in the past. To prove this point if you look at India’s batting line up their middle order batsmen the big three they share more than 30000 runs between each other and if you add scores of Laxman and Sehwag to it then I guess experience wise and in terms of runs scored there is no other team in the world whose batsmen share such an achievement but when you try to correlate this record with India’s success ratio in tests in the last 15 years you will acknowledge the fact that India’s record hasn’t been impressive. Somehow their batsmen have been unable to translate their impressive personal record into wins for India in a higher percentage. I know that their bowling has been weak during most of this time but still if you consider the batting line up their success ratio should have been much better.
Australia on the other hand their batsmen they have a selfless approach, as far as aggression is concerned I think actions speak louder than words, sledging and aggressive body language have very little to do with the final result of a match, in fact a batsman can reflect aggression by the pace of his innings and by taking control of the game and by clinically decimating the oppositions bowling attack, for a captain aggression is reflected by the decisions he take, the way he sets up his field and the way he handles his bowlers especially when under pressure, the target he sets for the opposition, the decisions he makes after the toss, in team selection, and above all the type of pitches he wants to be prepared in a domestic series.
A bowler can show his character and aggression by not getting under pressure and demoralized when under attack, giving nasty looks to opposing batsman after every other delivery cannot be termed as aggression.
Now coming back to the forthcoming series, I think it will be a true test of the batting class of Indian batsmen as Pakistani bowlers in the absence of Asif and Gul failed to put any pressure on the Indian batting it is interesting to note that Indian batsmen were quite uncomfortable against Shoaib Akhter but since he only bowled four overs in any spell he couldn’t have a bigger impact on the series and Indian batsmen saw him off and treated all the other mediocre bowlers with disdain. In Australia the situation will be quite different they will play four quick bowlers and all of them have good pace, I think they will not play Hogg in the test matches Clarke and Symonds will take care of the spin department I am not too sure if the latter will play in the first few matches. Their pace battery is more than enough to get the job done.
If India has to fancy their chances , IMO their younger players will have to lift their game and their Young bowlers RP singh and Ishant they will have to control on the extras and will have to bring their A game in the field.
Hrishi,
The debate centred around Tendulkar and Afridi stems back from Pakspin days. They have different roles in the team but that does not mean they can’t be compared. Plus Tendulkar is an opener only in ODI’s, not in Tests. And Afridi has opened in many matches in ODI’s too. Afridi you can say is a “finisher” but how many matches have we seen where he has “finished” successfully for his team?
Afridi is one of the most talented players in the world like Tendulkar is. He brings excitement into the game but he has not been able to provide consistent performances. I am not saying here that Tendulkar is a team man- my only argument was that he is a batsman and his job is to score runs and he makes lots of runs consistently so essentially he is doing his job. The runs that he scores get added to the team’s total- they are not only added to his personal statistics or records.
Yes they are employees doing their jobs but there is always the question of “who does his job well, better, and best” in any job field . There is also always a question of whether any given employee deserves to be employed or not! Also you are asking me to compare Afridi with Dhoni or Pathan- Dhoni averages about twice as much as Afridi and Irfan Pathan not only out scores Afridi as far as bowling average and strike rate is concerned, he also out averages Afridi with the bat. Even if you call Afridi an ODI bowling all-rounder, he isn’t a terribly consistent bowler although his bowling has improved of late. In the recent ODI series against South Africa his bowling was okay- it was good in some patches but unimpressive in others. Then in this ODI series against India his bowling average was 112 and his strike rate was 111, which is appalling.
That is the sad story of Shahid Afridi’s career, who has been blessed with great talent but does not have the brainpower to put that talent to good use.
Amar,
The gay innuendo about Afridi and Javed is cheap and inappropriate. He has kept his comment clean and we should reciprocate in keeping ours clean.
Javed, Khansahab,
The debate about who is selfish is not going to go anywhere. Aren’t we all selfish to varying extent? No matter which industry your job is at, we are all encouraged to be team players but don’t we all strive just a bit to be ahead of the pack and get that extra recognition or bonus or that favor from the boss? Tendulkar and Afridi and the rest are all essentially employees doing their job. What is wrong in them striving for personal fame and fortune as long as they contribute their fair share to job to be done? All successful professional athletes have that ego and selfishness to strive for records, whether it is Jordan or Tiger or Lara or Tendulkar. Why should we resent them their personal reasons for doing their job?
Thirdly, Khansahab, comparing Tendulkar and Afridi based on statistics is not fair to both, especially to Afridi. He is a “bowling allrounder” by his own admission. His job is to be a finisher, versus Tendulkar’s is to be an opener. They are both valuable in their respective roles. To be fair, you should probably compare Afridi’s batting stats with Dhoni or Irfan Pathan.
Wasim its been discussed a lot about kumbles tact being defensive..but if India had not got those 7 wickets..if pakistan had been 350/2 ..then the news papers would have claimed kumble should have rather given his men some batting practice!!
And i just happened to come across an article in an australian news paper which calls Sourav Ganguly a ” serial pest “…i guess thats for mentally disintegrating the great steve waugh at his own game!!
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,22911959-5003413,00.html
Wonder how the reaction would have been had we called punter “the serial drunkard”
Khansab ..thanks a ton for that insightful post about Indian batting greats, especially on tendulkar..hopefully it will seep in much faster in thin-skulls …( since mine is accused of being a very thick one
)
..if after having a scoring rate of 86 in onedayers and playing along with fixers like azar and jadeja in tests and still making a fight of it..and as you rightfully said..keeping india above the minnows…if you still get called a selfish player..then i think we will have to re-examine the meaning of the term selfish.
( and khansab for exposing the caliber or rather lack of it of the great Afridi ..i guess it wont be just bouncers and yorkers..you might get a few BEAMERS!! )…pyar deewana hota hai…..
My apologies khansahab, haven’t looked upon the recent matches played on perth. In the last match held there panesar took five for .. and that too in the first inning. I cant argue on warne coz he is more a deadly bowler on hard tracks than slower ones. He always took wickets on pacy tracks.
I will prefer bhaji only if india play with 5 bowlers (ishant or pankaj .. not pathan) , and i dont think india are going to dump dhoni in order to make way of extra bowler. Thats why i am more interested in final 11.
Javed A Khan, Montreal, Canada,
You have mentioned a few times to date that Indian batsmen only play for their personal records. I don’t think the comment is true in its entirety.
How does it matter how a batsman is playing as long as he is scoring runs consistently? A batsman’s job is to score runs one way or the other. And the best way to score runs is to play sensibly. A batsman needs patience and resilience and above all the ability to place mind over matter. Since a batsman’s job at the end of the day is to score runs, Indian batsmen have done plenty of that in their careers, more than, may I add, their Pakistani counterparts.
You are a huge fan of Younis Khan and Shahid Afridi but these two play ridiculous strokes all the time and waste their wickets. If you think this means they are playing “selflessly” you are very wrong. I criticised Younis’s reverse sweep that led to his century recently in the Test series against India. That was an irresponsible move especially in a situation where his team needed not to lose another wicket. He loves playing that shot although he is not particularly proficient at it- he has been dismissed quite a few times attempting it.
Since India started playing international cricket, it has won most matches on the strength of its batting as opposed to bowling. India like Pakistan has never consistently been a top 3 team in the world but it would have been a much poorer team had it not have exemplary batsmen like Tendulkar. In the mid-to-late 1990′s Tendulkar was the only reason why India ranked higher than minnow teams in my opinion. The reason I am mentioning Tendulkar here especially is because in your opinion he is an overrated and selfish batsman. Tendulkar has opened in 72% of his 397 ODI innings and his ODI strike rate is 86. That does not tell me that he is a selfish player because selfish players do not play aggressively and take on the best bowling attacks the way Tendulkar has done. Shahid Afridi likes to play aggressively and take on the best bowling attacks but his average is only half that of Tendulkar’s and he plays for himself and the crowd because he wants to maintain that 100+ strike rate. Perhaps because that only is his claim to fame.
Amit P,
The following is pasted from “Cricinfo grounds” regarding the Perth pitch:
“The WACA staged its first Test in 1970-71 and soon established a reputation for being a fast and hard track, and that continued until the last couple of years when the surface flattened out. The often intense Perth heat is famously eased in the afternoon by the Fremantle Doctor, a breeze which sweeps in along the Swan River.”
So the surface has flattened out. Since it has been flattened the intense heat should open up a few cracks that will assist the spinners. So I am of opinion that the pitch will assist spinners. All the pitches in Australia have something to offer to everyone. I think the result is likely to be 2-0 or 1-0 in favour of the Aussies.
The Perth wicket is highly pace-friendly and this is one venue where India are most likely to lose. India have the best chance of winning at Sydney, which supports spin. But I think they should not pick Harbhajan in any of the matches, because he is not at the top of his game currently, and also we have seen that Murali was not very successful when Sri Lanka toured. They’ll probably try Ishant Sharma on the basis of his 5-wicket haul, but the Aussie batsmen will be ruthless against him. Sreesanth for all his antics, might have been useful here since he bowled really well at SA last year, under conditions which are similar to Australia.
The Indian batting may look strong on paper but are the reflexes of the batsmen good enough against express pace? I think Tait will be the biggest surprise weapon and the Indians will need to be careful against him. I think Jaffer and Yuvi will be the biggest surprises for the Aussies; Yuvi really needs to play.
About India being poor travellers, I think they’ve changed all that in the last 6-7 years and that should give them confidence, as should the 2003-04 tour.
Aus are definetely the favourites, but India do have a chance.
I’ll go with 2-1 for the Aussies.
A minute correction … two grounds those assist spin are sydney and melbourne .. not Perth. India are playing first two tests of the series on these aussie’s spin assisting track. The real letdown for indian is sreesanth exclusion from the squad. I dont think there is any politics surrounding his exclusion. A fit sreesanth is as capable as zahir and on auss pitches he cud have more useful than zahir. Aussies are known for targeting those guys whom they have slightest of fear. However they played aggressively against him in india … but again it was him who gave india early breakthrough .. its other matter how indians spoiled his early breakthroughs. Lets see who is going to fill his role. There are many things to be watched in boxing day match to get a proper assessment of this current indian team’s mindset. First how many bowlers they r going to play … if 4 then they cant play with 2 spinners and 2 pacers though the pitch is going to assist bhaji. It wud give extra work load on pacers in aus conditions. And spinners cant do much without early breakthrough. I wud love to see they play with 5 bowlers .. this means they will have a long tail.
About sachin’s acumen as a captain i have different opinion .. though the record shows him as a bad captain .. he wasn’t actually. His team was full of setters and incapable players. Remember how azhar used to play in his regime … coming and throwing his bat from the very first ball in test matches. Captain can’t do much if his players are not going to perform. Those two terms have affected him and he is reluctant for taking this job, but he is always a natural leader in the camp. After burning his fingers twice … why shud he take this job … better leave for others. After kapil, india is still in search for a captain of his caliber and fighting ability. In fact in world cricket we have seen rarely a quality captain of late, barring cronje, vaughan, and offcourse last 3 aus captains.
Javed, re your last paragraph: Deal.
I will go on a limb and predict a 1-1 tie.
Re Tendulkar refusing India’s captaincy, he was in a no-win situation. When there was talk of the board offering him the captaincy, there was quite a bit of clutter accusing him of dirty politics to get rid of Dravid in quest of the captaincy. Never mind that he had turned down the captaincy twice before. Now that he has turned it down again, Javed and others like him are accusing him of being selfish and focusing only on his personal records. It seems like people will criticize the guy no matter what he does. For one thing, it is obvious that Tendulkar is a bad captain and his prior record as a captain is terrible. He knows that very well. Experience alone does not make one a good captain. Secondly, Kumble deserved a chance. He has served Indian cricket well and now is his time. Dhoni wouldn’t have made a good captain because his place in the Test 11 is not certain. If Dinesh Karthik strikes form in the first test, I wouldn’t be surprised if Dhoni is dropped in the next test so that Yuvi could play.
I will again go on a limb and predict that Australians will not take Harbhajan’s bait to play Hogg, and if they do, he will go for runs. Case in point: Danish Kaneria.
Good night folks.
I agree with the avatar of this blog that it will be a testing time for the Indians, because for India, playing in Australia is different from playing in India. The Australians have proved their supremacy even when they played in India and they will be much more aggressive on their hard and bouncy wickets and in front of their home crowd.
But, I do not agree with the accolades being given to Anil Kumble for being astute and proactive. Shrewed he may be, but proactive he is definitely NOT. He is one of those typical stereotype Indian Captains – barring Mansoor Ali Khan Pataudi who was proactive and brave. No wonder they used to call him Tiger Pataudi.
Kumble has past his age of retirement and they have thrown this gauntlet of captaincy towards him because neither of the so-called senior players were willing to take the responsibility to hold the reigns of the 10 horse chariot (the 11th player is the captain himself who holds the bridle). Its a shame that Tendulkar, Dravid, Ganguly all refused to captain the side for personal reasons and for making and improving their personal records.
It would have been better to retain Ms Dhoni to captain the test side as well. After all he was doing well in twenty20 and even in the ODI. Anytime better than Shoaib Malik. Just because Kumble has won the series 1-0 and that too after 27 years people are happy and not paying much attention to his defensive tactics deployed during the 2nd and 3rd test. I would not hesitate in calling it as negative tactics and I would have certainly fired a captain on these counts.
Sreesanth’s exclusion seems to more political than factual. He was not selected because of injury! Well, that is always the reason and excuse that is given to the public. But, the real reason is, his attitude has cost him his place in the team and people in Australia were very keen to see him and the Indians realized that it would be a bigger problem handling the crowd behaviour which might not only affect Sreesanth’s own performance but the overall team’s performance as well. I think it is a good move to drop him and he should learn from this.
Harbhajan’s call against Hogg is unnecessary and he should have avoided that because Hogg will be more cautious and more on his toes to prove him wrong and the Aussies always back their players and I have a feeling that emotions will be high between the two of them when they play.
Australia definitely has advantage over India and India being the underdogs have nothing to loose because no one is expecting them to win against the best side of the world, especially in the test arena. So, the Indians should play MORE THAN their natural game i.e., aggressive cricket and Kumble has to be more aggressive and sporty in taking decisions to bring results rather than playing for a draw.
I do not wish to add anything more to this or deviate from the topic and I do not want others to come and attack me personally, if they do then they should expect bouncers and yorkers and NOT look at the umpire (avatar of the blog) for sympathetic action. HOWZ that?